Non-Canon species vs Canon to Shadow Fleet

[Rayek trLhoell]

Hi, I noted that the character Left Ear to-Ennien was not accepted due to the species not being canon (Sivaoan).

I was wondering... if a mission was developed to introduce the species in Shadow fleet... maybe a diplomatic mission to carry an Ambassador to a Federation signing meeting...    Or a first contact mission... would the species then be able to be considered since at that point they would be canon to Shadowfleet?

It just seems a shame to limit the creativity of players to only canon species when the whole concept of Star Trek is to Bold Go ... and to Seek out New Life and New Civilizations.

[Kyle Briggs]

Sounds legit. Only "downfall" (for lack of a better word right now) would be finding a CO willing to make a mission around introducing the new species. If a CO volunteered to do the mission, I don't see why we couldn't introduce a new SF canon species.

But then you have the drawback of other new members wanting to bring in a new species. We'd have to set it to something like, "If you want to introduce a new species, you'll have to join as a Trek canon species first, do some time and then convince a CO to do a mission to introduce your new species."

I see nothing wrong with it. As you said, seek out new life and civilizations.

[Dylan Torngate]

*Note- Renamed topic because I'm sometimes a spelling harda$$*

I always like writers flexing their creative muscle. I'd always be willing to work with players to add new species and new ideas, within reason.

We do have room for this in our rules.

SF rules, section 1 part 2 has the list of canon species.

1.2 - Character Species

Once you have created your account, you can create your character. The first thing you should consider is the species. Shadow Fleet rules allow the following species:

• Andorian
• Ba'ku
• Bajoran
• Benzite
• Betazoid
• Bolian
• Breen
• Caitian
• Cardassian
• Denobulan
• El-Aurian
• Elaysian
• Ferengi
• Human
• Klingon
• Mugato
• Nausicaan
• Orion
• Risian
• Romulan
• Rutian
• Tellarite
• Tholian
• Trill
• Vulcan
• Yridian

In addition, the following species are allowed but require a fully developed backstory and Fleet Admiral approval:

• Androids
• Delta Quadrant Species
• Founders
• Iconians
• Jem'Hadar
• Katorlians
• Liberated Borg
• Preservers
• Tarellians

If you would like to SIMM as a species that is not on this list, seek admin approval first. Please note that prohibited species include the Borg, Talosians, the Q, Species 8472, and any non-canon species.

This may be overruled by the Shadow Fleet Admiralty on a case by case basis

I'd like to highlight two sections in this, first the words "If you would like to SIMM as a species that is not on this list, seek admin approval first" and "This may be overruled by the Shadow Fleet Admiralty on a case by case basis", so there is a bit of wiggle room.

[Kalro Zolarim]

It would be fun to hold a yearly event where we voted on which non-canon species to add to Fleet canon.  Then the admins could write up a brief info sheet on the winner, and players could app for that species with surety.

[Jada]

That's a very odd and arbitrary list of approved races. Many of them are not Federation races. Rutians are a one-off, non-Federation race that few people would think off. Some, like Tholians, might be unplayable in a conventional campaign, as they need a special high-temperature environment. And who the hell wants to play a mugato? How does one play a mugato? (It's only there because a novel had a genetically enhanced mugato character.)

Some like Preservers and Iconians are powerful ancient extinct species we shouldn't expect to find serving in Starfleet in any capacity, detailed backstory or not.

There have also been many characters with races not on either list: Angosian, Zakdorn, Haliian, etc.

Against that, it seems odd to exclude a race from a 33-year-old novel that's not very different in form from the Caitians.

Or rather, the Caitian/Regulan/Ferasan family of cat folk. Why do they have so many names? Because they were only named in non-canon sources, hence there are legal disputes over what each licensed product can call them. Caitian slipped into official material, but isn't said anywhere on-screen. Like them, many of the races we do permit rely on backgrounds from non-canon sources. Jada's flavour of Orion culture is based on bits from the FASA and other RPGs, novels, etc. I wouldn't have a character without the non-canon information.

If I may make a proposal, how about first characters are restricted to a list of regular canon races, while second characters may be androids, shapeshifters, and races that are non-canon but still from licensed sources? There have been some popular, well-known and developed races in the novels and such that people would probably want to play.

I remain against player-created races, however. Too often, they're strange and confusing, have powers and habits known only to the player, sneakily come from some other setting or fanfic universe, and the player is more interested in their creation than in the mission or the Star Trek setting. It's too hard for GMs to adjudicate and other PCs to work with.

[James H. Hawk]

The list is a bit weird, I agree.

I have a serious problem with the way Iconian's seem to have been used previously on this site before I've been here (the Iconian War on the timeline, I have heaps of problems with the way that war seems to have been depicted and even the fact that it actually happened. I'll spare you all the rant for now). I don't think Preserver's should be there either, and I'm very skeptical towards letting Delta Quadrant or Founder's in.

On the Mugato, Constance Lafayette used to have a Mugato alt [Citation Needed].

The issue with just accepting all Memory Beta species is some are a bit...questionable and don't necessarily fit or make much sense. Original species though I'd agree with Jada, they shouldn't be allowed. Especially if they're crossovers from another fandom. Nothing against your fandoms, I happen to like things like Doctor Who but I don't like crossover species like that.

Personally, I'd also like good developed backstories for why non-Federation species serving in Starfleet and I'd want more detailed depending on the species. Species like Orion's I wouldn't be to strict on but if you're playing a Tholian you'd better have a damn good reason for why it wants to serve in Starfleet, why the Federation allows it and how it lives in our atmosphere. Also for species like the Sivaoan's, I would like to know how they can hold a scalpel. Again, not meaning to insult the species but the images of them make them look like actual cats more so than say Caitian's which are still humanoid.

I will bring this to the CLOs. We are have a Committee that is begining to rewrite some Help Files so I will propose that we revise the playable characters list, since it appears to be something that the players want to be looked at.

[Naira]

It's late so I won't dive too deep into this subject just yet, but I also agree that it's another big NO from me as far as crossover and original species go. I used to co-admin at a fantasy site years ago and it seemed as if once every six weeks or so I'd get somebody trying to come up with their own species. Most of which were either ridiculously overpowered angel or demon creatures or poorly thought out concepts all mashed together so that someone could have a really smart, very attractive character with a handful of neat abilities that didn't really mesh into some kind of believable concept. Also, twice I got apps for people wanting to play the second coming of Jesus as their character.

[Calandra Trilarck]

I understand the need for rules but I was a little disheartened by the rejection of Left Ear because I know how stoked Ozu was to create her. I too, agree, that made up species outside of the realms of missions should not be allowed for all the reasons stated above.

Even when building Calandra, I beefed up her empathy a little bit than a standard Haliian by adding in a Vulcan dissident teaching her some exercises in her bio, but I still placed limits on it for fear of unintentional god-modding. Most of what Calandra picks up is already established by the player in posts before, anyway.

I'd like to make a suggestion if you choose to move forward in allowing more non-canon characters to inhabit Shadowfleet. If a player chooses to use a non-canon character based on a novel, comic, etc., then that player should not only link the source but also comb through the source and post every relevant information the novel/comic/blah blah blah has to offer on the species so the administrations know what they're all about, including their strengths and weaknesses. This way, it's on the player to make sure that they're being held to the standards that the species has set.

[Ozu Saya]

Going off some of the suggestions here, if someone wanted to lead a mission to introduce Sivao to Shadowfleet, I would be happy to play the Sivaoans and provide the background needed. They are a fun race and it would be awesome to have others playing them as well, if we got them added. There are lots of opportunities for humor, as well as many benefits to having them as part of a crew. Their agility and natural weapons make them ideal for security. Their perfect recall and sensitive noses make them good doctors and scientists. While they value nature, they have advanced technology and a high level of curiosity that would make them desire to join Star Fleet and explore the galaxy if the opportunity was presented.

That all said, I understand and respect that this is an admin decision either way.

[Solluk]

Incidentally,

It has been touched on by others here, but there is scarce information on even some of the canon races.  Jada mentioned that she had delved into licensed materials to flesh out the Orions, which she did well.   Whether from licensed materials or not, such fleshing-out is going to be necessary for many races played.

We may want to consider creating some kind of fact sheet for some of the lesser-explored canon races as a resource for players.  I suggest this even while recognizing that such a proposal is likely to be controversial, because it would be seeking to create a fleet canon for a canon species that has no canon details, and anything established would necessarily constrain future writers while threatening to contradict future canon.

But having said this- any writers will be making this stuff up anyway.  Do we perhaps want to be on the same page?

[Naira]

Incidentally,

It has been touched on by others here, but there is scarce information on even some of the canon races.  Jada mentioned that she had delved into licensed materials to flesh out the Orions, which she did well.

I did a little of that myself, however, what I did was take what information was out there and what was implied by it and tried to take it to its logical and scientific conclusions. I then used that information to come up with my own special diet and health requirements.

[Ozu Saya]

That was one of my thoughts. I have at least as much, and more in many cases, info on the Sivaoans as there is on many canon races, so I can provide a pretty good start for a fact sheet. It's actually easier on here than it was to incorporate into a tabletop game because we *had* to make some equivalencies, etc for rolls. Much easier, as far as I'm concerned, since it's all role play here.