Author Topic: Star trek Discovery CBS  (Read 17428 times)

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Offline Jada

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2017, 08:40:39 am »
After watching the three episodes... I really don't see the point of this at all. It's a shinier, modern-television re-envisioning of classic Star Trek – okay, sure, but how's that different from the Abramverse movies? So far, Discovery is not doing anything that needed to be done, or telling a story that needed to be told. Space warfare! Who hasn't seen that before? This comes back to my original concern: why not roll forward another 50 to 100 years like TNG did, and use the space to tell a new story, and do something new? It'd rather just trample over the existing series, and compete with the movies. I can squint a bit and pretend this is set in the same Trek universe, but with the effects the original production team wished they'd even known about, but the tone and history and tech are all way off.

Ah, but I know why: going further into the future would mean being as utopian as TNG, or more so, and in today's television and political climate we can't have that, no. Even Star Trek has to be cynical and po-faced serious, with Starfleet turned ruthless and warmongering, and twisting wonders of the universe into weapons.

That's Discovery's real flaw to me: it sucked all the fun, adventure, and idealism out of Star Trek, and made it just like everything else we could be watching. Just like Rogue One and Force Awakens did with Star Wars. I'm currently rewatching TNG and my main thought it: "We need something like TNG again."

It feels a bit like someone came up with an independent SF series concept, someone at the company realised "Oh, hey, we have rights to Star Trek" and the whole thing was retooled and hammered into a Trek-like shape where neither fit the other.

Specific whinges:

Klingons had one of the most recognisable and well known alien designs around. Now they have the most forgettable. I think they ripped off the Sycorax from Doctor Who. Worse, they're boring. They stand there and grunt monotonic Klingonese interminably back and forth. How does anyone make Klingons boring?

Darkness, bright lights, and lens flares. So old and annoying, making it look like most other spaceship SF series. Trek's clean, bright sets would actually be a novelty again

The main character is unlikeable. All the annoying, boring parts of Vulcans, with none of the charm or wits of Spock or even the reliability of Tuvok. Does Trek really need to do the emotions versus logic theme again? That's aside from the tacky laziness of making her Sarek's foster-child, Spock's foster-sister for no good reason.

The first two episodes shouldn't exist. They're just an extended prologue taking up space; they could be removed without losing anything. The series should have started with Episode 3: we meet Michael, known only as the notorious Starfleet mutineer. She's surrounded by mystery: what did she do, and why? She becomes more likeable, not less. Then we see the Discovery, you know, the ship the series is named for, the intended setting throughout. We meet all the regular characters, discover its secret power, and set up the setting for the rest of the series. Then, later, if you really must, do Episodes 1 and 2 as a flashback, either in bits or whole-episodes.

I'm going to recommend that now: if you haven't seen Discovery yet, watch Episode 3 first.

Good bits:

Michelle Yeoh: It's good to see her in a space setting, and she brings dignity and charm to this. I wish she'd stayed on as captain throughout.

Canonising the Black Fleet: Well, they've completely wrecked Klingons, but at least you nodded to John M. Ford's The Final Reflection & The Klingons FASA sourcebook. The perfect marriage of the TOS and later versions of Klingons, with an intriguing alien mindset and society, from their point-of-view. Actually, they should have just done The Final Reflection instead.  Actually, they probably just pinched it from Memory Beta without reading any of these books.


PS: Every Trek series has started a bit rubbish and disjointed and not much like what it later became, so I would hold out hope for the rest and would give it a second chance. I mean, I'd watch it regardless. It's a good SF series, just not a good Trek series.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 08:44:05 am by Jada »
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Offline Ian Galloway

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2017, 10:27:57 am »
It's a good SF series, just not a good Trek series.

This is a true statement. If they hadn't put the Trek veneer on the damn thing, this would be an interesting series.

Offline Arrun Dihsar

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2017, 05:01:06 am »
Episode 4 was much better. First episode that, to me, really contrasted non-starfleet thinking with starfleet thinking. That brute force and rushing things made matters worse; where careful consideration and a scientific mind serves the crew of the Discovery much better. Meanwhile, we get to see what the Klingons are upto, this time they seem to have their own problems to deal with; kinda interested to see where that goes...kinda surprised how committed they are to having them only speak Klingon with subtitles. This is the first episode that really felt Star Treky to me; though, I am worried it took them 4 episodes to get there for me; but better late than never I suppose.

Nitpicks of the Week
--Yep, still not used to the holo-interfaces. What happened to the chiclet candy keys? Are you telling me that in about ten years or so, Starfleet is going to say "You know those holo-interfaces and the easy to use hand-gesture controls? Garbage! We need analogue controls and unlabeled buttons you have to memorize!"
--Correction from before: the HR Giger monster is being contained somewhere sane rather then just off the captain's office. Then again, the ship looks so samey it can be easy to forget where you are aboard ship.
--Yes Burnham, we get it, but you do know there is a war on right? I mean, you have a point; but, these seems an odd time to bring it up.
--Security Chief, what are you doing? Did you even attend Academy?
--Romance is in the air, for some reason, in a life threatening situation; not the time. (Maybe read too much into this?)
--Hahaha! Oh wait, you are seriously saying the stuff you worked on for Starfleet; in Starfleet uniform; belongs to you? Hahaha!
--Burnham is acting awfully illogically regarding the case for someone brought up in the Vulcan tradition; then again, she is only human.
--Here we come to safe the day! Run away! Run away! (Hey they worked, I meant to do that, honest.)

Kudos of the Week
--Well, you got what you deserved Security Chief; I just didn't think this show would make that happen.
--Yes, running away did occur; but to be fair, it IS a science vessel really; despite the Captain's own protestations to the contrary.
--Welcome Back Starfleet ways, lets hope to see more of this please.

Offline Solluk

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2017, 10:51:27 am »
Star Trek Discovery, Episode 4: This episode had some interesting moments that did not quite make up for some poor writing choices.  At least it continues to be intriguing enough to watch, keeping me curious about developments.  Curiosity is a type of excitement, if not quite the excitement I hoped for.

SPOILER SPOILER
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SPOILER SPOILER


Okay, there were some bad bits of writing in this episode.  In particular, some character choices were ludicrous. 

STUPID DECISIONS

1) I can't believe the security officer could have been so monumentally stupid.  What, not even a second or two to check and make sure the anesthetic had the desired effect?  And if you are going to cut chunks off of this creature, why not beam out the chunks you want?  Why barge in there with a knife?  I mean, it's not like you think it is safe.  You are interested in this creature because you see it as a perfect killing machine that is impervious to harm.  The whole scene was a very contrived way to kill off a character and to make Michael look smart.  But you can't make a character look smart by making other characters look stupid.  Well, you can, but it's not as effective.

2) Michael herself was pretty stupid a bit later, endangering a fellow officer unnecessarily to satisfy her hunch about the Tardigrade liking mushrooms and being nonviolent.  Why not pop the lid on your spore container and beam it into the room with the Tardigrade?  At least the first time?  I understand she wants to develop a rapport with the creature, but maybe check your theories first before diving all-in?

3) I don't really like the guy in charge of the Klingons.  Nor do I like his right-hand lady.  It's bad enough that they were stated to have eaten one of my favorite characters, but that's just personal taste.  (Ha!)  What isn't as forgivable is that they are two flavors of stupid.  The Klingon who betrayed them practically had an "I will betray you" neon sign over his head.  It took an incredible amount of naivete to welcome him back and leave him unwatched to undermine authority.  The lead Klingon's right-hand-woman is supposed to be smarter than him, but she didn't put anything in place to guard against treachery.  Neither of these people deserves to be playing the Game of Thrones, Klingon Edition.  I guess the Matriarchy will fix them? 


INTERESTING MOMENTS

We got a bit of a glimpse of the Captain's self-importance and disdain for authority in the simple gesture of him continuing to eat while speaking to his superiors. 

We now have confirmation that the saucer is a double centrifuge.  Not sure why.  I hope we get more details on how this drive system is supposed to work in the future.

The jump effect was interesting.

I think Michael deserves every iota of distrust and animus that Saru shows to her.  Couldn't she have just said she needed him to come and help her with a threat assessment of the creature?  He is right to feel manipulated and used when she apologizes to him but then just seems to want to look at his 'ganglia.'

Planetary shields are pretty impressive.   It seems this mining colony was under bombardment for more than a day before its defenses buckled.


UNAPPEALING DESIGN CHOICES

Did not like the birds of prey.  This is probably another instance of my expectations butting against the design choices of the creators of the show.  Everything about the Klingons says "Generic Bad Guy" to me, and I know that's not what they want to convey.  But they're conveying it pretty well.  I feel like Vin Diesel will appear soon to help Starfleet kill the Necromongers.


CONCLUDING FEELINGS AND IMPRESSIONS

We've seen a lot of the Klingons now, and I'm still not really enjoying them.  If I could forget that this was a Trek show with all of the built in expectations that brings, I might enjoy it more.  It really does feel like a new Sci-fi show with its own universe.  The writing will have to be tighter if they want me to enjoy it on that level.  The mysteries of the show will not be able to keep my interest indefinitely if I am constantly rolling my eyes at the things the characters do.  I'm still tuning in, but I want this to improve.  I hope it does.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 10:54:18 am by Solluk »
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Offline Kyle Bytes

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2017, 11:03:33 pm »
Due to the new series. I am not going to try to watch it. I don't like Enterprise. The future is not being used. I would love to see the future. To be awed with new stuff.

I personally know if my 4 year old nephew watch this. I know he will dislike it because he knows crap. If he ever watches older Star Trek like Next Generation he would watch it. The reason he knows what is good and what is bad.

And I think it is official insulting that they have to re do the Klingons. Why? That I will not stomach

Glad I have no access cause I can pass and not feel guilty for missing crap. If they have co star characters and actors then I might try to see them but anything else. Not gonna try to watch it.

Offline Jada

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2017, 11:54:13 pm »
I'm still not thrilled by this series.

I'm glad to see an improvement in morality regarding treatment of the creature, but that Starfleet and the series is in such a dark place to begin with just makes for a miserable series.

Lorca's treatment of Stamets was atrocious: bullying, guilting, and traumatising your best scientist is not the way to get anything done. This isn't Kirk asking Scott for engines in 5 minutes. I hate this trope of ordering science to be done and discoveries made on cue, it simply does not and cannot work that way. It's dangerous idiocy. Lorca is the one who should be mutinied against.

The Klingons continue to be painfully boring. Their monotone grunting, their indistinguishable appearances, their bland design. Is Voq's sacrifice going to make him into a TOS-era Klingon? I don't even care. I still remember Gowron's bug-eyed glare; I can't remember one damn thing about T'Kuvma that stands out.

So, Phillipa Georgiou, nice, respectful, peaceful, patient and upholding Starfleet ideals, has been depicted as wrong, mutinied against, killed, and now eaten. This series is just spiteful and mean.

Good points:
* The monster is a giant tardigrade. :D

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Offline Ser Conley

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2017, 12:55:20 am »

"May you live as long as you want to, and want to as long as you live."-Irish toast

Offline James H. Hawk

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2017, 06:34:09 am »
So I'm one of the people who like Discovery. I know its not like classic Trek and I'm also aware that being someone who didn't get to grow up with Star Trek on air, I probably have different standards and thoughts on these sorts of things compared to those of you who grew up with Trek.

I won't give my full thoughts just yet as I'd like to see a few more episodes and because I don't have time to write it all down now but I did want to share something I found on the internet:

https://anas-tronaut.blogspot.com.au/2017/10/star-trek-discovery-tardigrades.html


The idea of tardigrades being used for space travel is incredibly unique and I doubt its a coincidence. The bit about some similar looking characters, I don't think is more than a coincidence but the tardigrade thing raises some red flags for me. I think Discovery's team should at least acknowledge that they drew inspiration from this game and maybe give the creator a little bit of money (though the press from being mentioned publicly by the Discovery's team would likely draw in A LOT of interest in his game and thus more money), but other than that I don't think much more should come from that.


Offline Jada

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2017, 08:00:26 am »
I suspect the tardigrade thing in both cases was inspired by the recent Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey series, which popularised them and had Neil deGrasse Tyson visit them at huge size in his miniature spaceship (yes). Doing the reverse is inevitable. Their weird abilities and appearance that can be both horrifying and adorable make them a natural choice for an alien creature in a SF role, though they'd been overlooked until Cosmos. The resemblance of Discovery to an obscure hobby game might be just a huge coincidence, but there's a lot of similarities in those scenes. It could just be convergent evolution.

As for Discovery, at this point, it's either gotten better or I've gotten used to it. The characters are more likeable, the stories more Trek-appropriate. The boring-as Klingons have been reduced to minor roles for the last two episodes, which helps immensely. I still don't see the point of any of it though.

They finally mentioned the Enterprise, as a Constitution class. Q only knows how they're going to explain this.
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Offline Jada

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2017, 08:07:12 am »
PS: Star Trek: Discovery's been renewed for second season, so it seems to be doing something right.

Also, I think they re-canonised the Voyager episode "Threshold". Travelling at warp 10 doesn't turn people into salamanders, the evolution wasn't complete yet. No, it turns people into giant tardigrades.  ;D

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Offline Ian Galloway

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2017, 11:04:11 pm »
I don't see why they pretended to put this in the Prime universe, they could butcher JJTrek until their heads burst.

Offline Leonard T. Scott

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2017, 11:15:49 pm »
I think there are two reasons why it's so dark.

1. The Federation is growing out of what could be considered its teenager stage. Think back to the time in your own life. The future was still mostly an unknown. You could still be molded and shaped. You're looking for something more idealistic, but it's not necessarily in the forefront of your mind nor does it drive your every day thought process.

2. They're at war with essentially master in the art. They need gritty captains and soldiers, not refined men sipping tea and explorers. I know from my own experience that war is hell and that's what they're trying to convey.

By the end of this series we'll probably see more the early to mid 20s of the Federation that line up with TOS


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Offline Ian Galloway

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2017, 11:24:40 pm »
The darkness makes sense because it is war, so that's the least of my problems. It's the displaced tech far beyond TOS or TMP levels, it's the sheer idiocy of the spore drive, it's just about everything, but the war.

This show is as bad as the BSG remake, but without the two good seasons. And that is saying something, because the last two seasons if the remake were the most spastic nonsense ever filmed.

Offline Leonard T. Scott

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2017, 11:36:25 pm »
So, you would rather it have the monitors look like 60s TVs, computers made with cardboard motherboards and yarn for wires?

You can obviously tell that the hologram communication is fresh out of R&D as it still glitches at times.

As for the spore drive, it's clearly still in trials, but they'll realize the moral implications which will lead to them abandoning it and never officially using or speaking of it again.


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Offline Ian Galloway

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Re: Star trek Discovery CBS
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2017, 11:44:35 pm »
I get that they can't recreate TOS, nor should they, but they have blatantly created something that flies in the face of 10 years before Kirk. I see it as them pissing in my ear and telling me it's raining, but I know it's not rain.

 

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