Fourth SIMM ship class

[Constance Lafayette]

I'll reiterate what I said in CLO chat:
The issue with a Nova (having been 2nd officer, XO, and CO on one) is that it just feels kinda "small, without a real benefit".

If you are going to do something "big"- do something really big. If you are going to do something small, do something really small. Nova (and ships like her) tend to fall into that "neither here nor there" category.
Little background:
Why are Federation ships so big (when compared to other scifi ships at the time)? Roddenberry's reason was that, basically, they were being used as roving support facilities for colonists. They had to be big enough to house all the stations and support staff to check up on entire colonies. They pulled double duties as explorers and occasionally battleships when needed. They were expected to go for years without resupply ("Our 5 year mission..."). They were kinda like self-sustaining space cities with some phaser banks. Later on we get other producers and that kind of changes- but that is where the design aesthetic comes from. The Galaxy class is the epitome of this- it houses 1,000-6,000 people and can be upward of 15,000 at max capacity with the facilities to do that deep space exploration role.

So when we get ships like the Nova whose job is a short range scientific vessel- we understand why it's smaller. It doesn't need all that. It isn't designed for a 5 years, deep space, mission. However, as our missions are largely episodic we kind of skip over the time in dry dock or attached to a station so, from a narrative perspective, it doesn't really impact us. We have 80 people on board so it's mission is very specific.

The Defiant is the opposite of that- it's a small attack craft. It's deployment time can be shown during a mission- multiple times potentially. It's not meant for exploration- it's normally tethered to a station or fleet due to its short operational time. Think of it as a big, beefy, runabout with a lot of guns. This can still work in the context of the site- but needs to be considered.

Sabers are kind of the brother to a Defiant and fit the same bill. They have a crew of 40(ish), which is the same as the aforementioned Defiant, but are a bit bigger (about 20 meters longer- but still shy of a Nova) with less of a "fighter craft" mentality. I think it's a good option. Info on it is a little shaky.

If you want to go big- go BIG. Like I mean Galaxy, Sovereign, etc. Push 600 meters. Don't stop halfway (I always wanted to see a big, ugly, Jupiter class). If you want to go small- go really small. Saber or Defiant.

Note: When we ran the Fleetwood, a Nova class (well Rhode Island refit), we constantly described it as the "underdog" ship. It was small, not-well armed, we elected to have it get a lot of "hand-me-down parts", and whatever. We played like we were on that kind of low-rung ship that got the shit end of the stick a lot.

[Dylan Torngate]

In response to the Exelsior's tech:
In the Excelsior's defense (Surprise! I'm back the Excelsior), the ship's of that class were still widely used during both TNG and DS9. I see no reason why those ships weren't carrying the latest in Starfleet equipment.   They have been one of the longest serving ships in Starfleet because of how they were built. They were designed as the workhorse of Starfleet. Other ships might be newer and more efficient but the Excelsior gets the job done. They are seen along side Galaxy and Defiant classes, Starships lightyears ahead of the Excelsior. (Will was born on the USS Valley Forge, an Excelsior Starship and he is only 21)  If we do decide on the Excelsior I reckon it could be a ship that's been sitting in Drydock for a complete overhaul of all its systems and is now sent to us to use.  That would cover the outdated tech argument and the reason why it wasn't seen in service before now.

Will, I absolutely agree on most of those points. Let me say this, all the ships mentioned above are great choices and any one has something to bring to the Fleet, I'm just trying to highlight some points people should think about. I also have a great personal love for the Excelsior and Ambassador, and think the Fleet would do great with an older design of ship that required a lot more thought to use effectively, or even older tech.

A) it is very true that the Excelsior class appears more often than other secondary cruisers, and according to ACTD (which is endorsed by Paramount as cannon-ish) there are about 80-100 Excelsior ships still in the sky.

B) The ship, even in it's most updated position, is still not very "in-date". Although the computers and Power/Drive systems are completely up to date, in weapons tech it still laggs behind. Most of the fleet are on the Type-IX to Type-X platform of phasers, the Excelsior's most updated is only on Type-VIII (Turrets instead of Strips) for Phasers due to space constraints as well as power constraints.

C) Dead on. The expected lifespan of the class was 50 years, makes the youngest Excelsior class 59 years old and the oldest over one hundred years old, with Starfleet only retiring the ship when it gets truly totaled. The ship can take hell and dish it back out.

I would personally love to serve on an Excelsior or Ambassador.

Although I love the smaller ships, we currently have 2 on the SB.

We also already have 2 small/medium sized ships with the Athena & Discovery (with 15 & 18 decks respectively).

So, maybe we need another bigger sized ship like to Phoenix (which has 30 decks) to balance us out.

As such, I kind of like the Ambassador class or even the Excelsior class.  Both are in Heavy Cruisers/Battleship which bring something new and different to the fleet.  Also it could open up some more story option for (admittedly more war/battle oriented).

I do like the idea of modifying which ever ship we choose to make it more interesting.  For the larger ships, saucer separation would be a great modification.  Also, enhance speed would be something to consider.

In regard to a plot driver, a larger ship has more options.  We could make it a traveling site for 'ambassador' type meetings.  Or, perhaps, make it the traveling site for the Bajoran Orbs or something similar.

Just my thoughts,

Kirok

Kirok, some excellent points. I agree with most of them, except one, unfortunately.

Cannonically, both Memory Alpha/Beta and ACTD's Techspecs, Saucer Seperation is a feature... but at the same time it is not. The Federation Council required large cruisers to have the capability to separate in an emergency, however the ability to recombine later on without aid of a starbase drydock is a feature almost exclusive to the Galaxy class. Excelsior and Ambassador ships can eject their saucers but this is an almost permanent maneuver. The Sovereign Class ships can eject the warp nacelle assembly to escape on impulse, but cannot eject the saucer. Intrepid class ships can eject the entire bridge, but the ability to eject the saucer is not an option. The federation council has also rescinded the directive requiring saucer sep ability, due to the fact that so many ships design precluded separation.

EDIT: Sources for what I'm basing this all off of:
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/excelsior.htm
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/ambassador.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/defiant.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/nova.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/saber.html

[Kirok]

Will, I absolutely agree on most of those points. Let me say this, all the ships mentioned above are great choices and any one has something to bring to the Fleet, I'm just trying to highlight some points people should think about. I also have a great personal love for the Excelsior and Ambassador, and think the Fleet would do great with an older design of ship that required a lot more thought to use effectively, or even older tech.

A) it is very true that the Excelsior class appears more often than other secondary cruisers, and according to ACTD (which is endorsed by Paramount as cannon-ish) there are about 80-100 Excelsior ships still in the sky.

B) The ship, even in it's most updated position, is still not very "in-date". Although the computers and Power/Drive systems are completely up to date, in weapons tech it still laggs behind. Most of the fleet are on the Type-IX to Type-X platform of phasers, the Excelsior's most updated is only on Type-VIII (Turrets instead of Strips) for Phasers due to space constraints as well as power constraints.

C) Dead on. The expected lifespan of the class was 50 years, makes the youngest Excelsior class 59 years old and the oldest over one hundred years old, with Starfleet only retiring the ship when it gets truly totaled. The ship can take hell and dish it back out.

I would personally love to serve on an Excelsior or Ambassador.

Kirok, some excellent points. I agree with most of them, except one, unfortunately.

Cannonically, both Memory Alpha/Beta and ACTD's Techspecs, Saucer Seperation is a feature... but at the same time it is not. The Federation Council required large cruisers to have the capability to separate in an emergency, however the ability to recombine later on without aid of a starbase drydock is a feature almost exclusive to the Galaxy class. Excelsior and Ambassador ships can eject their saucers but this is an almost permanent maneuver. The Sovereign Class ships can eject the warp nacelle assembly to escape on impulse, but cannot eject the saucer. Intrepid class ships can eject the entire bridge, but the ability to eject the saucer is not an option. The federation council has also rescinded the directive requiring saucer sep ability, due to the fact that so many ships design precluded separation.

EDIT: Sources for what I'm basing this all off of:
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/excelsior.htm
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/ambassador.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/defiant.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/nova.html
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/saber.html

I'm loving the healthy exchange of ideas and learning more about the various ships!

OK - if a saucer separation is not possible then how about something reverse engineered from on Star Fleets biggest enemies?  The Borg!!!

Could a ship be modified to have the same propulsion system the Borg ships used?  It was a transwarp system that used established 'channels' or tunnels.  It supposedly allowed the Borg ships to travers greater distance in a 20th of the time of a fleet vessels (or so I thought I had read somewhere).

[Dylan Torngate]

I'm loving the healthy exchange of ideas and learning more about the various ships!

OK - if a saucer separation is not possible then how about something reverse engineered from on Star Fleets biggest enemies?  The Borg!!!

Could a ship be modified to have the same propulsion system the Borg ships used?  It was a transwarp system that used established 'channels' or tunnels.  It supposedly allowed the Borg ships to travers greater distance in a 20th of the time of a fleet vessels (or so I thought I had read somewhere).

I'm also enjoying the exchange of ideas!

Borg Tech could be a very, very interesting idea, though to use it right there'd be lots of hazard pay, lots of safeguards, and an unbelievable amount of risk. While I personally don't see the Federation using reverse-engineered borg tech, (I more see that as the domain of the Romulans), if the Federation was to do it that would be it's own testbed, it's own unique class of ship. That could be an interesting realm, though we'd have to be careful to make sure that it doesn't become too overpowered (EG Fires one shot at .4% power and blows up a planet)

There is potential in there for something like that, heck even a classified romulan warbird or any other faction's ship

[Gabriel Arthur]

Since we've moved away from "should there be a 4th ship?" to "MAKE THE 4TH SHIP SO!" territory...

Something David mentioned earlier caught my attention - the idea of history.

An Excelsior or Ambassador would obviously come with a lot of history, and that would be interesting to work in the backstory.  What did it see?  Why is it back in service?  Did it ever leave service?  Did they haul the spaceframe out of mothballs to refit it?  Does it have a vaunted name, or is it a Flying Dutchman?

Using an older model of ship opens up these avenues of storytelling.  Maybe it's a workhorse that constantly has to prove itself among the hot new models.  These ships were designed for around a century of service, so even Excelsior (while pushing it) isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Or just use Sovereign, because it's what people recognize.

[Dylan Torngate]

Since we've moved away from "should there be a 4th ship?" to "MAKE THE 4TH SHIP SO!" territory...

I don't think there's much doubt in anyone's mind that we likely do need a new ship. Looking at the rosters, we're pretty packed for any new growth, so in my opinion there likely should be a fourth SIMM soon.

Something David mentioned earlier caught my attention - the idea of history.

An Excelsior or Ambassador would obviously come with a lot of history, and that would be interesting to work in the backstory.  What did it see?  Why is it back in service?  Did it ever leave service?  Did they haul the spaceframe out of mothballs to refit it?  Does it have a vaunted name, or is it a Flying Dutchman?

Using an older model of ship opens up these avenues of storytelling.  Maybe it's a workhorse that constantly has to prove itself among the hot new models.  These ships were designed for around a century of service, so even Excelsior (while pushing it) isn't out of the realm of possibility.

If this option is went with I would freakin' love to be on whatever committee or team that helps write the history or the writeup of the ship! (Consider that an offer if anyone cares)

Actually, the Ambassador was the first spaceframe that was meant to last a century of service. Excelsior's were originally designed to last 50-75.

Or just use Sovereign, because it's what people recognize.

While we're at it let's call it the USS Chin'Toka.

[Malcolm Adeyemi]

I would also love something truly, truly off the wall, kind of in the vein of what Constance has been saying:

What if the Federation had seized a Borg Tactical Cube and it was the crew's job to get it up and running?

[Kirok]

I would also love something truly, truly off the wall, kind of in the vein of what Constance has been saying:

What if the Federation had seized a Borg Tactical Cube and it was the crew's job to get it up and running?

I love this idea!

Seconded!!!!

[Gabriel Arthur]

While that idea is indeed cool in theory, we'd have to think of the long-term planning for it.  Will it still be as attractive when the novelty of the bit has worn off?  COs get shuffled and transferred, too...so maybe the next CO in line may not be as enthusiastic for wandering far afield of what is the norm.

I'd also think a Romulan warbird (an exchange attache to the Fleet) would be cool.

[Constance Lafayette]

While that idea is indeed cool in theory, we'd have to think of the long-term planning for it.  Will it still be as attractive when the novelty of the bit has worn off?  COs get shuffled and transferred, too...so maybe the next CO in line may not be as enthusiastic for wandering far afield of what is the norm.

I'd also think a Romulan warbird (an exchange attache to the Fleet) would be cool.

I think that if we select our command crew correctly- that's not as much of an issue. We need communication between potential CO/XOs to ask "are you cool with this" in the same way that we need to communicate over lots of things. The same could be said, to a lesser extent, to taking over on a starbase or the like.

Even for me a Borg Cube is pushing it a bit- but I can still see it happen. I would, personally, love to see a Romulan warbird in the same vein as the HMS Bounty from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. I actually, at one point, wrote up a SIMM based on that I had planned to launch while I was MIA from Shadow Fleet.

But yeah- a non Federation ship is SO cool and has all my love behind that idea.

[Dylan Torngate]

My supports:

1) Ambassador
1 (again)) Other Species ship (NOT BORG, sorry I just can't get behind that, any other conventional villain)
2) Excelsior
3) Nova/Sabre class

[Kirok]

My supports:

1) Ambassador
1 (again)) Other Species ship (NOT BORG, sorry I just can't get behind that, any other conventional villain)
2) Excelsior
3) Nova/Sabre class

If I can't have a big Borg cube, then my top choices would be:

1. Ambassador
2. Excelsior

[Gabriel Arthur]

If I can't have a big Borg cube, then my top choices would be:

1. Ambassador
2. Excelsior

Betwix the two?  Ambassador.

[Zell Perim]

Glad to see this place is back up and running!

Is there any love for the Luna class?

You get extensive science facilities, decent weapons, etc...

If we choose an alien ship, I'd vote for something still Federation like a Vulcan ship and have it run science, medical, and diplomatic missions.

Just my two shillings.

[William Waring]

Nothing too great about the Luna in my opinion but then again it's a more focused on the Science aspect which we have been exploring.

Now I pose a different question. Who will be the first Command Staff on this new ship? I know that I would love to Captain an Excelsior but not so much a Defiant or Sabre. Don't get me wrong, any Command post is all well and good but I think the ship should match those who Command it unless we shuffle the rosters every so often.